GM Varevice was the Gods Guru for Gemstone for quite a long time and while she is no longer a GM, she has had a major and lasting impact on religion in Elanthia. In 1999 she completely rewrote the official gods document. This drastically changed the status and alignment of many of the gods. As you can imagine, some people loved it and some hated it.
One of the far reaching effects of the new document is showing up in the development of the Deity Alignment system which will dramatically effect cleric spells. Personally I have had some very mixed feelings about the rewrite. The old version of the gods document (which I am still trying to track down in its original form, everyone else seems to have lost their copies just like I did) was much more poetic in its story of who the Arkati were and are. It also had the gods divided into only two pantheons, and then being listed as either major or lesser gods. The god Danay serves, Leya, was demoted in the rewrite from being a lesser god in the Liabo Pantheon to being a pantheonless immortal/lesser spirit. Needless to say, demotions are never easy to swallow.
Some of the old versions of the gods document had interesting stories and tidbits about who the enemies, allies and even lovers of the various gods were. For instance Eorgina was listed to be lovers with both Luukos and Ivas. Simu seems to have wanted to tone down some of the more conflictual and salacious aspects of their official documentation. Some of the details about the various gods were totally different than the stories as presented in the current document. Many of us miss these old aspects as we feel they were more colorful. Yet at the same time, the new document adds information and gods that were long missing and much of it has been a positive addition, no matter who you talk to.
While many of us prefer the old, not just because it was the old and what we had built our RP around but because there were things about it that we simply liked better and thought made for better stories, the fact of the matter remains that the current document is the official word on matters of religion, and we all need to play accordingly.
Varevice was also responsible for two major additions to the game in the form of the new introduction to the History document where the story of the creation of Elanthia is told and the Elven Dogma document. Both of those aroused much comment and some heated debate. Originally Varevice had plans to release some of the information contained in them via in-game methods, but those plans never came to fruition as her time devoted to the game became less and less before her departure. So as things stand, it's up to players to decide what their characters know and what they believe in relation to those documents. (Though the Elven Dogma tome can be read by characters in the library in Ta'Illistim.)
No matter how people viewed the various changes and additions, it was quite clear that Varevice was passionate about the gods of Elanthia and had the best interests of the game at heart. She attempted to give Elanthian religion more depth, while at the same time trying to standardize it and create a solid base upon which to build for the future.
Varevice had a wicked sense of humor and a keen understanding of the world of Elanthia and its religion. Below I have preserved a few posts she made in the Gods folder on the Gemstone message boards. I only wish I had kept more of them. These posts should help give some insight into the way things are and why they are that way.
This post from late 1999 came during a lengthy and heated discussion among players, not long after the new gods document was released, regarding whether or not the Immortals and Lesser Spirits are actually gods. Many claimed they are gods, just of a lesser variety, with narrower spheres of influence, lesser power and/or small followings. Others claimed that the new document clearly meant that only the full Arkati in the Liabo, Lornon and Neutral pantheons were actual gods and the others were just immortal beings of some sort.
Category Role-Playing (53) Topic The Gods of Elanthia (13)
Message How Much is That Dogma In the Window? (169)
By GS3-VAREVICE@PLAY.NET
On Dec 22, 1999 at 16:57
Thanks to Gorlash for pointing this out. I've picked up a seasonal job and currently haven't had time to blow my nose, let alone read the boards. :::grin::: Best Buy at Christmas is just not fun....
Anyhow, thus speaketh the Bat:
What is a god? Really, how do we define who is a bona fide deity and who is a non-union demibeing?
Let's get really technical for a moment. If you want to talk honest to goodness Gods and Goddesses not a single member of the Arkati is one. They are a race of ultra-powerful beings with powers strong enough that Elanthia's mortals have called them gods, but if we're going to be retentive about it, they're just a race of mortal beings with really long lifespans and big magic.
But the power of belief is a strong one. It has healed people in the real world, has started and ended wars...and in Elanthia, it has made the Arkati gods. They have worshippers, they answer Communes, they grant resurrections, they are hotly debated. But they started as slaves to the Drakes, who were more powerful than they were. Some served Ur-Daemons, who were also more powerful than they were. How powerful, then, must a TRUE god be, to be more powerful than those we know as our gods?
There are True Gods. They make the Arkati look like parlor magicians. They are simply choosing to remain silent...for now.
What about the Others? Well, for once, I'm finding myself somewhat in agreement with Krisenfest. (No, you do not hear the Four Horsemen coming.) There's no single classification for these folks (which is why, in my infinate wisdom, I called them the Others, for lack of a better term). Let's look at a couple examples.
Voln is not a god. He's a Lesser Spirit with pseudo-godlike powers and a body of worshippers. Now, with all those worshippers, it is likely he COULD be a full "God" but he chooses to devote his power to Lorminstra, being a devoted Knight.
The Huntress is a Patroness. I consider these on a par with Demigods. Why is she this way? Well, I think of it this way. Her worship isn't as widespread as, say, Lorminstra's, so she's not as traditionally powerful. However, I would like to remind you all that, in the comic books, Batman beat Superman in a fight. Why? Because he's smarter, more clever, and that's what matters. Just because you're dealing with a Demigod doesn't mean you should feel free to insult their mamas.
(Note: Varevice is a Batman fan. You all guessed this, I'm sure.)
Laethe is a baby Arkati. He's got the potential to be a full "God" someday, as he was born an Arkati, but he needs to get his worship base up if he wants to do that. I think he's content where he is, though.
Meyno is another kettle of fish that I'm not going to try to pickle right now.
How about Gosaena? Well, she's an oddity, as usual. She's a full Arkati, as old as the rest of them, and powerful. But she has a nearly nonexistent worshipper base. So how come she's so powerful? I'll leave you all with that puzzle.
So, to their worshippers, they are as real of gods as any. They do good, or ill, and they influence the world in whatever ways they see fit to. If you simply MUST have an "official" thing to call them, go on a case by case basis, but for the most part, I think "demigod" is the closest I could come to a generalization. But then again...if you really want to be technical, you can't call the Arkati gods, either. ;)
At any rate, I suppose what I'm saying is that a god is what you make it. I put a lot of thought, and heart, into that Gods document, understanding that while I couldn't make everyone happy with it, I had to start somewhere to standardize our pantheons. This is a project that I love still, and will return to when I have half a moment to breathe again. I didn't just make a mistake. I put a lot of very careful thought into who went where, and why, and how.
I wrote the document so that we would finally have a solid base to go by and build on. There had been far too much diffentiation, leading to opinions that, while not wrong, were wandering astray of what was either popular opinion, or what was intended. I'm all for variety, but we have to have a standard.
Oh, and a bit of trivia in this already too-long post. While the pantheons were based a lot on the Greek mythos, I also tossed in a bit of another roleplaying game called In Nomine (Steve Jackson Games), a little bit of Wicca, a little bit of Frank Miller, a little bit of Neil Gaiman, a little Shirow Masamune.... My influences are varied and many. :) If anyone's interested, I'll give examples but for now, I'm going to close and go soak my feet.
- The Bat
This post came after a short discussion by some players who felt that the followers of dark gods are ignored too much in the game and felt a bit left out because they don't get as much interaction with their gods.
Category Role-Playing (53) Topic The Gods of Elanthia (13)
Message What God To Worship - A Tough Roleplay Choice (232)
By GS3-VAREVICE@PLAY.NET
On Jan 17, 2000 at 16:09
Every so often, someone writes me a letter stating that they don't understand why X or Y god hasn't appeared in a while. While I have a certain set of stock answers (stock because they're just true, like the fact that Gods just don't come when called), I wanted to make a longer, more involved post on it for everyone's consumption.
What god your character chooses to worship is a personal roleplay choice, based on personality, past experiences, etc. But not all gods are equal as it comes to personal interaction with their worshippers.
The Light Gods are a little better about appearing, on the average. They're a kinder, gentler lot for the most part, who actually care about their worshippers. (Naturally, Charl is excluded.) This doesn't mean that Commune is their dog whistle, but they actually care about those that worship them. That worship means something to them.
The Dark Gods are a whole different kettle of fish, and answer or don't on an individual basis. Let's take a look at them....
Eorgina is a megalomaniac. She is positively powerhungry, and has an ego the size of a really fat Drake. While she's completely unpredictable, her worshippers do mean something to her. Likely, if she took over the world, the people that worshipped her would be allowed to live. And she might be inclined to answer Communes or appear to her faithful.
Ivas...yes, worship means something to her. She might answer Communes or appear to her faithful. And if she killed her worshippers, who would she have orgies with? This doesn't make her completely benevolent, however.
Fash'lo'nae's an enigma. He's not too likely to smite you, but he's definately not going to spare you if he feels your death will gain him something. Worship amuses him.
Andelas. Well, my cats never come when called, unless my calling coincides with their whim to come see me. He's as unpredictable as any household tabby, and is just as likely to scratch you as he is to lick your fur clean.
V'Tull rather likes worshippers. He's also very people oriented, which is why he inspires battle rage in his warriors. He's probably the most likely to appear to his faithful of all the Dark Gods.
Sheru just loves to give nightmares. And his worshippers mean something to him, since without them, who's he going to give nightmares to? Now, if he took over the world, he'd probably let them live, IMHO, but I don't know that they'd want to.... He might even appear to his faithful.
Mularos is sort of an on and off guy. He'll appear, form a cult, the cult will burn out, and he'll disappear again. He does, however, believe in personal interaction with his people when he's out and about, and they do mean something to him. More than anyone realizes.
Luukos is not a god you want to see. He likes to torture people, steal their souls, and either eat them or turn them into undead. Oh, he'll show up for you, but he's nearly as evil as they come. If he took over the world, all his worshippers would be dead and walking about as zombies, skeletons, and any other nasty thing he could ponder.
Marlu IS as evil as they come. In an Elanthian dictionary, if you looked up the word "evil" you'd get "see also Marlu" with a little picture of him. Marlu doesn't give a rat's patootie about anyone or anything but himself, his kind, and his own designs. Worshippers amuse him, and make convenient snack food. If you assume for one moment that the rumors are true and he IS an Ur-Daemon (I am not confirming nor denying this), why should he feel differently? He ate Arkati for breakfast. Mortals are Cheese Nips. (If you really want to understand Marlu, I suggest reading "The Call of Cthulhu" by H.P. Lovecraft.) He doesn't appear to his worshippers, and WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SEE HIM?
This makes worshipping the dark gods really tough, I know. I realize that, at this point, a lot of you are screaming, "Unfair! Unfair that the fluffy-bunny light god worshippers get to see their gods and we don't!" Well, on this, we're in something of a Catch 22. If we break our own god personalities, people who understand the nature of the Dark Gods will howl that we're not being consistent. If we don't, the Dark God worshippers are unhappy because some of them don't show up too often, or at all.
I've always considered that those who chose a tougher road and decided to play an evil personna were amoung our better roleplayers. They don't need us, or our GM interactions, to worship and roleplay. They went right on without us and did some of the niftiest things in the game. But I also know that sometimes, people don't realize that this is actually making a really tough choice.
It's not easy to be hated and despised by everyone in the game because you play consistently someone that's not a Nice Guy. And to then stick by a god that would rather eat you than give you the correct time of day, well, that only ads to it.
But to those people who do, and do it well, I salute you. Keep after it, folks, and I'll keep working for you. I'm pondering my next God or Goddess expansion writing, and I'm pondering Fash'lo'nae, Andelas, or Marlu. Opinions?
- Varevice
As happens every so often, there had been a heated discussion on the boards among players about deeds, death and the gods. There was a wide range of viewpoints and the conversation wandered a bit to include who can grant deeds, what exactly happens at the Ebon Gate, who can or cannot raise the dead and what happens to our spirits in all the in between times. The first post is one from me, replying to Tarkisis, to give a bit of context to the conversation and then follow two posts from Varevice. (Quotes from Tarkisis are in italics.)
Category Role-Playing (4)
Topic The Gods of Elanthia (13
) Message Re: Deeds (1261)
By OBSESSION@PLAY.NET (Danay)
On Jul 17, 2000 at 14:41
Goseana is in charge of the afterlife--not Lorminstra, unless I completely misunderstand things. She also is in charge of undeath, just as Luukos is. Goseana's realm is -beyond- the Ebon Gate and the only one to hold power there.
That's what I said. Lorminstra keeps the gate. She decides who passes. Once she allows someone to pass the gate, THEN they are in Gosaena's domain.
Lorminstra just opens and closes the gate for the dead, depending on who has claim to the soul. She is a gatekeeper and nothing more.
I'm not sure how you came to the above conclusion, she is not opening and closing the gate at the bidding of others. SHE decides.
Here's the official doc descrip:
"Lorminstra is also the Keeper of the Ebon Gate. It is her decision whether a soul is allowed to return to Elanthia each time an appeal is made via a ritual of resurrection, and even Koar will not gainsay her decision. "
As Armaxis pointed out--even Luukos has granted life again. When Blades was granted his life straight from Luukos, did he feel that he was pleased that he owed Lorminstra a favor? There is something wrong with that view.
Though it has never been clearly stated one way or another, I personally believe all the gods have the power to restore life. But, only with the aid of Lorminstra. You don't have deeds (Lorminstra's favor) and there's nothing left of you for the gods to bring back to life.
While some of the gods may be in conflict with each other, they also generally abide by the spheres of power of the other gods. The only time this doesn't seem to be true is when gods are in direct conflict over the same sphere, such as Sheru and Ronan. But even other gods who have overlapping spheres are normally not in direct conflict, but rather having power over different aspects, such as Ivas and Oleani.
If you look at it from an un-bias standpoint, Lorminstra actually doesn't hold much power other than as a mechanical means to keep from departing on a permanent basis. Take that power away by letting favor be passed out by other Arkati (which seems more likely that other Arkati would have had those powers anyway) and Lorminstra has no purpose anymore. With how things are -- Lorminstra really doesn't -care-, since decisions are made by gems and silvers, not by any sort of decision on her part. It's all mechanical--she doesn't deny A-N-Y-O-N-E. Lorminstra's powers are OOC.
There are several things in this paragraph. First of all, Lorminstra is also the goddes of winter, so to say that she doesn't hold much power is ignoring her other significant aspect. (And ignoring that even Koar won't gainsay her.) Why are you looking at it as an OOC mechanic? In Elanthia Lorminstra is who she is and has the power she has. You said look at it unbiased, and yet throw out Elanthian reality and turned it into a discussion of mechanics. (Note: Elanthian reality can change, as irritating as that is at times.) Lorminstra denies those who have not sought her favor and lets them pass beyond the gates. For players it's mechanics. For our characters it's Lorminstra deciding.
Another issue regarding deeds is to those that die permanently. They are assumed to have been taken by Luukos, however the *Soandso was just demonized* or however the phrasing goes--actually seems connected with Marlu or Fash'lo'nae, rather than Luukos. Luukos is not a demon master--Marlu or Fash'lo'nae have that ability. Now..if the phrasing was-- *Soandso was embraced within emerald coils.* or *Soandso was just a serpent snack!* those would be much more appropriate in pointing out Luukos' hold on the soul. Marlu and Fash'lo'nae care little about such things.
~Tarkisis
I will agree that the meaning of going demonic and even the use of that term is vague at best. I've been assuming that all of that is something Varevice is going to be addressing in the not too distant future. We just got our creation info, hopefully the afterlife info is hot on its heals. But knowing the little we do now, I don't assume that demonic means taken by Luukos. My assumption is that someone who "goes demonic" is someone who has passed on into Gosaena's realm. I agree the wording and the concept don't fit. But none of it is really a good fit right now. My assumptions are just that and others can easily draw other conclusions. I just try to make sense from what we are given. :)
Robin
Category Role-Playing (4)
Topic The Gods of Elanthia (13)
Message Doing the Deed (1266)
By GS3-VAREVICE@PLAY.NET
On Jul 17, 2000 at 15:48
Well, after skimming the bulk of the Deeds post, I'll place my opinions and whatnot over here.
I've played characters on both sides of the coin, Lornon and Liabo (and a couple that weren't either). I've fought the deeds debate in my own mind, and although after a while I realized that anyone who nitpicks you on your getting deeds needs to be drowned and that I should just get them and go on with my life, I did come to a few conclusions.
First, let's look at the way the pantheon works. Gods have their own spheres of influence, and while in some cases certain Arkati have certain powers that overlap, for the most part they are discrete. We have a few Arkati that handle aspects of death.
Let's ponder these for a moment. First, we have Lorminstra. Good old Lormie is the Gatekeeper. Something of a spoiled brat (after all, she's Koar and Lumnis' baby girl), she is the personification of Death and Rebirth. She's not just Death, she's all about Rebirth and your soul being turned away at the Gates.
Next, we have Gosaena. Gossy is something of an enigma. But her sphere is Death. Just Death. Do not pass Go (but do pass the Gates), do not collect 200 silvers. When you get to Gosaena, you're history.
Finally, we have Luukos. Use the souls, Luke. He's a god of Death, all right, but it's death of the body, death of what was once a soul. He's a liar and a cheat, and his entire thing is to take the souls of the recently bodily deceased and stuff them into a really icky shell to shamble about and be permanently dead in a way that not too many people would want to be. Rebirth? Well, kind of....
The only thing these three have in common is that someone has shuffled off their mortal coil. Not only would Luukos not give a dead rat's tuckus about giving someone a deed or sending their soul back for another go-round, he'd probably be against it. Who needs a living person anyhow? More will be made, after all, and in the mean time, here's this nice warm soul that could be stuffed into this zombie vessel. Gosaena doesn't want anyone whose time hasn't come, but she's not going to send you back, either. This leaves Lormie.
Yes, that's right. As much as it is a thorn in the backsides of the entire pantheon of Lornon, Rebirth belongs ENTIRELY to Lorminstra. That's her whole gig. Oh sure, other gods can bring your body back to life. Isn't that why we have Lifekeeping spells? It's to keep the soul around so that you're still in the big ballgame. If your soul is still in your body, pretty much any Tom, Dick or Sheru can make it breathe again.
Why do you still lose a deed? Consider it penance. If the cleric drew on Lorminstra's power, well, she's probably considering it a favor called in to bring you back and is taking a deed as payment. (I told you she was a spoiled brat.) If the cleric called on someone else, well, you could look at it a few ways, but my favorite is that Lorminstra's peckish. You called on someone else, and now you lose one of her favors, dang it.
Where do you REALLY need deeds? That would be when you get a penalty kick. Just you and the goalie, and Lorminstra's the one standing in front of the goal. If your soul leaves your body, you are completely out of the power of the rest of the Arkati. Unless someone nabs it in transit (like Luukos, who we've already established isn't going to stick you back in your body, at least, not til it rots a bit...this is why he peeves Lorminstra so) or you get misdirected somehow (and yes, kiddies, we'll learn more about misdirected later), you are totally at Lorminstra's mercy.
This is what happens 99% of the time. Your soul leaves your body, and it is entirely up to Lorminstra what happens to you. Sheru cannot save you. Marlu cannot save you. Oleani cannot save you. The fate of your soul, and whether or not it gets to go back to the mortal realm, rests on Lorminstra, because she, of all the Arkati, is the only one with the power to do anything about it.
Remember, Arkati are not true deities, but they're close. This means that they're not omnipotent, omnipresent, or omnipowerful. Close? Yes, but this isn't horseshoes. There are some places that only certain Arkati can go, and this is Lorminstra's bag. So if you want to come back, Lorminstra MUST owe you a favor or have some reason to send you back. Yes, Dorothy, Lornon too.
But do not dispair! If she owes a Luukos follower, she has to send them back. Don't you think this annoys the crud out of her? She could get rid of one iota of her worst enemy's power by shoving that Luukosian through the gates...but she can't. She owes them. For their deed, their life will be spared, and she'll send them back, grumbling about how they smirked at her. And of course, they can get these favors so easily, by donating to the poor, or by bribing those priests and priestesses at her temple. These annoying little cusses are buying her favors, and she's too busy to stop them from doing it. But still...she has to send them back.
Looked at in that light, it's not only not out of character for a Lornon follower to buy a deed, it's downright in character. Who wouldn't want to spit in Lormie's face, waving their Sheru symbol, saying, "Neener neener, you have to let me go back!"? This is probably a grand jest. The Lornon pantheon probably gets together for coffee and laughs about this. Eorgina smirks up her sleeve and says that she planned it this way, Ivas stretches languidly and notes that it's so nice of Lorminstra to send her followers back for more fun when she plays too rough, Andelas notes that he loves leftovers, Sheru says that giving people nightmares about their death is fun, and Marlu drools and eats another package of Sweet and Low.
I would consider it pretty out of character, and inconsistent with the mythos, to provide another means honoring another Arkati to get deeds, at least from the Lornon side. Liabo, maybe...after all, the Liabo pantheon works on Lorminstra's side, and if you honor one of them, they might be able to talk Lorminstra into giving you a deed in their name. A few of the Others might be able to finagle a deed for you out of Lorminstra, Voln most specifically. Gosaena could do it, Zelia MIGHT be able to do it depending on the state of her insanity that day.... But looking at Lornon, the ONLY one I could see her bending for is Fash'lo'nae.
However you slice it, you're stuck with Lormie. :::chuckle::: But there are lots of ways to look at it.
- The Bat
"Marlu, leave the Sweet and Low alone!"
Category Role-Playing (4)
Topic The Gods of Elanthia (13)
Message Re: Doing the Deed (1403)
By GS3-VAREVICE@PLAY.NET
On Jul 20, 2000 at 19:01
Let's see how much confusion I can create, shall we? :::grin:::
Okay. Yes, the fact that the soul is still in the body is VERY crucial, since deeds are not important to the body, but to the soul. Let me explain the Order Of Death so all the differences can be seen:
1. * Bob just bit the dust!
2. Bob is notified that he's got X minutes before decay. Bob can still see the world going on around him. He can sigh and talk as he waits for someone to hopefully come by and resurrect him. Note: at this time, Bob's soul is STILL IN HIS BODY from both a mechanics and roleplaying standpoint.
3. A baby cleric comes by and Lifekeeps Bob. Bob has another couple minutes where his soul is bound to his body. Note that phrase: bound to his body. That means he's still in there.
4. Lifekeep wears off. Bob's soul is still in his body, but it's not bound there anymore.
5. Bob, being an unlucky type, runs out of time and decays. At decay, Bob's soul leaves his body.
With that clarified, I'll go on. See, as long as your soul is in your body, it's pretty much safe. It's still on the mortal plane, can still interact, etc. The problem isn't with the soul, it's with the flesh, which is damaged beyond the ability to sustain life. Flesh is really just matter, and most Arkati have at least the basic power over matter to do things like repair flesh and kickstart a heartbeat. Those things are fairly easy on an Arkati power scale. Heck, a number of the Others have that kind of power.
When you decay, your body leaves the mortal plane. It leaves the planet, and a number of things can happen to it. In most circumstances, it goes directly to Lorminstra at the Ebon Gates. Lorminstra looks and says, "Yep, go back!" and sends you back, because you have deeds or it simply isn't your time.
Can it get snagged by other gods on the way? Sure it can. That's why Lorminstra hates Luukos...he's constantly stealing souls and stuffing them in dead things, and that's a perversion of what should be. She is constantly on the offensive against attacks of this nature, by both Luukos AND by the other members of the Lornon pantheon.
And this, folks, is why you won't see a Lornon-based deed system. Lorminstra is the Gatekeeper. It is solely HER job to state who goes where when their soul leaves their body. It's her gig, her territory, and she fights for it. Lornon gods try to steal souls every so often (Luukos, frequently) and their attempts are repelled. This is why Lorminstra's job is important. She's what keeps souls on track. Yes, sometimes she misses. Yes, sometimes excrement comes to pass.
So why, you ask, can't a Lornon-based deed system allow this to happen more often? Because it would be like a snowball rolling downhill. One god finds a way to consistently steal souls. They share the knowledge. Another manages. And another. And another. Soon, the entire pantheon of Lornon is doing it. Lorminstra's power has thusly been effectively nullified. She can no longer keep effective control over the souls, so she has no purpose. And Lorminstra dies. There is no Gatekeeper now, and the entire afterlife spirals downhill into one huge mess.
There must be a control somewhere, a nearly inviolate sphere of influence. Lorminstra knows this. So she fights hard for her place. She has to justify her job to the bosses. The other Liabo Arkati know this and respect it, which is why they won't interfere further than to ask their sister please to give X a deed now and then. Lornon is fought off tooth and nail, so that they don't steal souls and put them back when they don't belong.
Now, there is a place where the Arkati cannot go, where the restless dead can...but you'll get more on that later. ;)
And now, a clarification on the pantheons (in other words, why is Lorminstra Liabo and not Neutrality?). It is actually a misnomer to call Liabo "good" and Lornon "evil". That's just generally how it shakes out. Lornon and Liabo actually have more to do with who supports Koar and his cause (which just happens to be a good one). Look at Charl...it's stated that the only reason he's counted with the Light gods is that he supports Koar.
Lorminstra, if nothing else, supports her father and his cause. And THAT is why she's Liabo. Gosaena doesn't care if you're Lornon, Liabo, or a fishmonger. When it's your time, it's your time.
- The Bat
This last post is from Setzier in June, 2001 after Varevice had left as a GM. There was a raging discussion concerning The One, The Other, The Many and The Grey as mentioned in the introduction to the History document (referenced in my introduction to this page).
The debate was concerning if our characters even know about them, if they believe in them, if any worship them or if it was only a story for players that has no in-game bearing. Some were talking about wanting their characters to worship them as gods. Some were saying that it wouldn't make much sense to worship them since they don't manifest in the world like the Arkati do. Some people were insisting that Varevice had never intended to release the information to characters and others maintained that she indeed did have that intention.
Nothing has ever been done with the information in-game and to this day you will find that most characters living in Elanthia continue to be ignorant of the story. This is because as players we've never really known what to do with the information or where it came from in an in character respect.
In the second post from Varevice, she is quoting me when I had been asking for clarification if the story is the real way it happened and if so do our characters know or if it's simply a creation myth like all cultures have and again if so do our characters know. (Quotes from posts to which Varevice is responding are in italics.)
Setzier does a nice job at the end of summing up the various RP aspects and implications of The One and cohorts.
Category Role-Playing (4)
Topic The Gods of Elanthia (13)
Message Re: The One, the Other, the Many, the Grey (2441)
By XSETZERXX@PLAY.NET (Setzier von Evenlore)
On Jun 17, 2001 at 21:24
I believe it was Varevice's meaning to institute this Creation theology into the game, in an In Character setting and way. She wrote it up to add a creation of the world theology to the realm, as well as to create a situation where the characters would have to pick and choose what they believed in regards to their beliefs.
Going back through my "Keeper Posts" folder, I discovered some Varevice posts that she in fact says that the Creation theology was meant to be revealed to the characters:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Category Role-Playing (4)
Topic The Gods of Elanthia (13)
Message Re: The True Gods (1062)
By GS3-VAREVICE@PLAY.NET
On Jun 16, 2000 at 20:08
He would dismiss this creation as a nice story created by a bard, and as it was written by Illstrim Elves, he would take it as he does any other work created from the Elven Empire, with a grain of salt. While not discounting the work, I stand with those who would be skeptical to accept it as fact within Elanthia, regardless of how, I , the player, can or cannot accept it.
Oh, I'm hardly saying that your character HAS to accept it. Skeptics are just as necessary as believers. Play your character how he is. I'm just saying that the knowledge COULD be in the game already (although, as I said, I'll be addressing that later), and that this is how it COULD be accepted or taken, or understood. Just examples and theology. I'm not handing down divine mandates. ;-)
- The Bat
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Category Role-Playing (4)
Topic The Gods of Elanthia (13)
Message Re: The True Gods (1054)
By GS3-VAREVICE@PLAY.NET
On Jun 16, 2000 at 15:07
I think this is a great addition to the game. But for myself at least I guess I would like to know if this knowledge is considered common knowledge or if this is the creation of the world that few if any characters would have ever heard. It would help to know if it's known because there are evidential facts or if it's because all cultures feel the need to explain the beginning, even if they don't really know how things began. It helps to have us all on the same page as players and then allow our characters to do their own thing as it makes sense for them as individuals with their particular beliefs.
I'll be addressing this in-game fairly soon. Thank you for reminding me, actually...pregnancy has turned me into such a scatterbrain.
You like stories, right? :-)
- The Bat
~~~~~~~~~~~~
While it might not have been what Varevice initially planned in regards to release, I think she let Melissa and the other GMs go ahead and implement her creation into the library of Ta'Illistim. This way it would be -- in an IC sense -- that this already existed... just in the Elven Nations rather than the Western half.
As a besides the fact, it was not Varevice's intentions to have people 'worship' the True Gods. The True Gods are not capable of understanding, and are alien to the terms of 'worship' in the conventional sense. Not only that, but those who do worship the True Gods would do so under blind faith as they will have absolutely no information, or tales or even interaction that are around the world about the Arkati. They would just have this creation myth -- be it fact or fiction. The True Gods created the Experiment, and that was it. No interaction, no visions, no passing of knowledge... nothing.
But that is what it comes down too. Does your character believe the Creation Theology to be fact, or just the ravings of a lunatic? There is no correct answer. From an OOC sense, the Creation Theology is fact. However, there is and will not be any hard-given proof that the story is true. If you create characters that, somehow, worship the True Gods... you'll have a harder path than those who play Evil characters go to down.
I do know that Setzier will not take this as true history. How could it be? The Arkati spoke not of the True Gods, because they themselves do not know of them. All the Arkati could know is the Drakes created them -- and all the Drakes know is they just were alive one minute. The Arkati have frequent interactions with the lesser races, they've given knowledge of the lands and history. To Setzier, they are the 'true gods'. They out lived the Drakes' rule, and looked out for the lesser races. Had the Arkati not, the Drakes would have ate the elves, dwarves, halflings, giantman, humans and all the other species on the planet.
It is up to your character to decide whether or not they believe it. Were someone to come up to Setzier and say, "I worship the One who created your weakling God".... Setzier would simply amuse himself - possibly do something damaging to either ego or body - and calmly say, "Where is your mythological One now?"
The fact remains, however, is this knowledge was meant to be released to the characters. Whether true or not, is the characters choice. There will be no hardcore evidence one way or another. There will be no visitations or visions from the True Gods. 'If' they exist, they just simply watch. And quoth the raven, "Nevermore."
Setzier's player
This post brought to you by the Kennesaw's LongWinded Posting, Inc. Our posts
are never too short, and always will cause loss of eyesight.